Heath.

Subject: Re: Heath. Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:11 am

I don't really see Heath being her tie to her humanity as I do seeing him her last link to her past. I think that since Z makes choices that choose good over evil that she doesn't really need him to keep reminding her of her humanity as much as she needs him to remind her of how she used to be. I agree Lumanee, they both know it's not safe to be together, but still continue to try while putting each other in dangerous situations. Heath may not directly be the cause of all the situations that put Z in danger, but he was a catalyst and he does cloud her mind. Maybe he doesn't when it comes to her saving the day, but she wouldn't be in that position if she thought it out before hand.

Subject: Re: Heath. Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:02 pm

I believe Heath is her tie to humanity. I think that is why she loves him so much. And of course Zoey will choose good over evil, but I don't see what that has to do with Heath and Zoey being in love. And, they don't try to put each other in dangerous situations. I think that they are all accidents which 1, helps Zoey find the truth about Nefret. Heath may cloud her mind, but in a good way. Haven't ever heard of the "honeymoon phase"? It's when one person loves someone so much that they are blinded by it. I believe that it's a mix of that, their past, and the imprint that made their love for one another so strong. Sometimes a great leap foward first often requires taking two steps back, you're right, but sometimes all it takes is the will to jump. If you love someone that much and they are in danger, you don't think, you act. that's exactly what Zoey does. It may be stupid, but they all turned out okay in the end. Heath made it to the Otherworld and Zoey got back to the real world.

Subject: Re: Heath. Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:11 pm

Choosing good over evil isn't what ties her to her humanity. All the good vampyres at school are good but it doesn't mean they have a tie to their humanity. Here's the distinction: Zoey was good but she thought that by being a vampyre, human rules didn't apply to her anymore. So she shunned Heath, cheated on Erik, and slept with a teacher who was using her? Why? B/c she thought she was a bad-*edit your post and this will go away* vampyre and she could have what she wanted. Heath reminded her of who she is at her core. He is the one who chastised her for (nearly?) killing the hooligans in the park, for taking and taking and not giving back and being shady (in the chicken place) and also for not remembering who her friends have always been (remember she didn't recognize her friend w/ Heath at the chicken place). Good vampyres are just that good vampyres. Zoey needed her ties to her humanity, to her Cherokee roots, to stay in the game and win it. That's what I mean by Heath screwed on her head right. She was slowly slipping into this "I see, I want, I take" person which those with power, can slowly slip into.

Subject: Re: Heath. Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:39 pm

No. Zoey wasn't (isn't) like that. Since when did she think she was a bad a$$ vampyre? I don't remember anyone making that distinction but you. She tries to be good, but things fot in the way. Loren = sent to go make Zoey feel all warm and fuzzy because of Nefret. He was supposed to make her lose her virginity only to make her life more complex. Yeah okay, she wanted Loren. It didn't mean that she thought she could take him and have him be hers forever. Besides, she knew it was wrong and she didn't want to want Loren. Erik = the hottest guy at the school and the guy everygirl wanted to have. Zoey was lucky to have him. He was simply at the wrong place at the wrong time when Zoey shunned him all because Nefret made sure that he went thereto see Loren and her together. Zoey was going to tell Erik that it was over, but Erik walked in on them before she had a chance to break it off herself. Heath = Zoey's childhood friend/boyfriend who she loved and was imprinted with. And I think now that in the end He was good for her. He was almst always there for Zoey wherever and whenever she neede him. Heath helped her out so she could get back to the real world because he knew the consequences of wat would happen if she didn't return. He knew Kalona would end up taking over and there would be a blah blah vampyre emergency blah.

Subject: Re: Heath. Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:55 am

I think humanity can mean more than just being human. Once you become a fledging, you're no longer human. You're more than human, but not a vampire. Humanity can also mean to be humane or to be kind and to show mercy. Z hasn't lost the capacity to be kind or to be merciful, so she hasn't lost her humanity. People who are evil are not kind and in some cases inhumane and without mercy. Look at Kalona and Neferet. So yes in a way it does have to do with good and evil.

And yes, I have heard of the honeymoon phase. When a lot of couples get out of that phase they head right for divorce because they no longer see through rose colored glasses. So not necessarily a good thing. Just because Z was able to make things right again doesn't mean it's okay. They should have never been in that situation in the first place. I think that if Z fell short, then everyone's outlook might be different.

Human rules don't necessarily apply to her though. Vampyre society doesn't work like human society does. She used that as a way to justify her actions. Whether she was out in the human world or not, she might have done the same thing given the opportunity. She shunned Heath because she thought it would be better that way, she cheated on Erik and slept with her teacher because of her own selfishness, lust, and ignorance. People who are 100% human do the same thing so what would their excuse be? Let's not forget how SR was given her humanity back, and that wasn't a link to her human life, but the ability to choose Light over Darkness.

Heath reminds her of who she once WAS. She's torn between who she will become and who she had been. But, she'll never be what she used to be. She wanted Heath around because she didn't want to admit that fact. Imo, I don't think she needed reminding of who she is deep down, but rather who she had been. When everything around you is constantly changing, why wouldn't you want something familiar around?

There had been a lot going on with Z, she could have simply forgotten. I went to another high school my last year and people I've known for 4 years, I had forgotten. Always taking and never giving is part of being selfish. We didn't know Z before she was marked so we can't really say she wasn't selfish before hand. Z still has her grandmother. So if she really needs those ties that badly, her grandma is a phone call away. Heath didn't remind her of her Cherokee roots, her grandma does. I think her grandma keeps her more in touch with her human side than Heath ever did which is why I said Heath is a tie to her past, not necessarily her humanity.

Subject: Re: Heath. Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:58 pm

Lilith, I do agree with everything that you said. But, I do have some interjections of my own. Since when was Zoey selfish? As I recall, she had been forced to give up her human life to a Tracker who Marked her. Ever since then, Nyx had given her all of those tasks and affinities only to "save the world" from Nefret's physco wrath! Not to mention Kalona the rapest. All of this was mounting on top of Zoey, one thing at a time. She was filled with so much crap that maybe she just wanted a little time to herself, even if that meant cheating on Erik with a teacher because she succombed to her raging teenage hormones or imprinting with Heath because of her outrageous, but apparently normal, bloodlust. So she has all of this drama going on that effects her own need to live a life for herself, and that made her go out to seek men which only pushes her into a corner where she had three guys that she loved and wanted. We all have raging teenage hormones. We all know what that's like. So why is it that you are all ganging up on Zoey just because she's a teenager with the normal hormone crisis we have all expierenced once?

She wants Heath because he is her tie to her old life, you're right. And I think it's only natural for her to want that back. I think she misses her average teenage life. I would too! I would rather be fretting for a geometry test than saving the world! She is a teenager, she shoulld't have to deal with all of that stress that saving the world brings on. "I'm a teenager! I can't even parrallel park!"

Being Chosen by Nyx Posts : 28 Join date : 2010-08-30

sorry I've missed this discussion, but I've been sick the past couple of days. Jedibarrister, again you perfectly put into words why I like Heath and think they need to be together (even if she's also with Stark).

Zoey not on a power trip, not becoming uncaring and selfish since she turned into a fledgling? Stringing along three guys at one time ... uncaring and selfish. Killing those gangbangers without even blinking, and not understanding at first why Heath said it was wrong ... power trip, and losing touch with her morality, which is why she NEEDS him. I'm sure I'll have more to add later when I'm feeling a bit better.

Being Chosen by Nyx Posts : 28 Join date : 2010-08-30

It's true that the Imprint caused her to kill those guys because she was so protective/possessive over Heath, but to me that was a prime example of why she needs to keep her 'moral compass' (Heath) while she deals with all of the things that becoming a vampyre entails. He was the one to remind her that she'd never been mean, and that she shouldn't become that.

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:31 am

Zoey may not be selfish with her duties, but she is with her personal life. No one said she couldn't take time for herself, who wouldn't? It's just how she went about it. She could have easily broke it off with Erik before Loren, but she didn't. She could have told Erik she liked him, but wasn't sure if she could only be with him, she didn't have to cheat on him. How does that saying go, 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'. Her only choices were 1) hurt Erik's feelings by telling him the truth or 2) hurt his feelings by having him find out one of those days. Either way didn't end well, but at least she would know she was honest and tried to do what was best.

I may have liked more than one guy at a time, but I always made it perfectly clear to them what my intentions were. If I wanted to see other people, I'd tell them. They deserved the respect and decency. Almost everyone knows what it's like to be cheated on, and the pain and frustration of that is far worse than being told you weren't the right person anymore. I'm not saying she's horrible for liking more than one guy, but she didn't have to keep them a secret. She could have told everyone that she likes more than one guy, and she'll casually see them all and that she can't be committed right now and they could take it or leave it.

You're right, it sucks that she doesn't have someone to depend on and that she has to go out and save the world. At the same time, she doesn't have to. She chooses to, and we both know that if there was someone else that could take over for her, she'd step down and try to be normal.

I think that Zoey would be alright without Heath as far as not forgetting how she should be. She also has her grandma to remind her. I think Heath was two sides of the same coin. He caused her to do stupid things, but he helped ground her. I see her grandma there to remind her of her people and where she came from. So I don't think she really needs Heath as much as she needs her grandma.

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:56 pm

I love Heath! He's just a little country sweetheart!

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:59 pm

Lilth: Okay, you win. Lol. I'm too tired to debate with you right now about why I think this is that. Lol. (I sent you a friend request just so you know!)

Subject: Re: Heath. Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:26 am

ok, I'll go approve it Smile

Subject: Re: Heath. Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:51 pm

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:11 pm

Love heath he was so cute and now he is dead and i really miss him. I want him to come back. I was crying when i read the part of his death!

Subject: Re: Heath. Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:33 pm

I was crying too, but that's because I thought he was kind of a funny character to have in the books and then he died.

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:19 pm

would it be mean if i said i was actually REALLY relieved when he died... A lil confused about how his body would be sent back, and how his parents would take it, but in the end really relieved.

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:02 pm

No, it wouldn't be mean. I cried over him because I thought about his parents finding out that their only son had been murdered. Sad

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:36 pm

To me that is the only sad part about his murder

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:43 pm

I agree.

Subject: Re: Heath. Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:57 pm

dont you find him.... annoying? he's like an old piece of gum on the bottom of your shoe that just won't come off lol!

Subject: Re: Heath. Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:13 pm

I never said he wasn't annoying. I said that just thinking about telling two loving people that their only son was murdered by a supernatural being, is a really sad thought.

Subject: Re: Heath. Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:07 pm

You're right, it's really sad. For Zoey, too. But even so, I was just as relieved as you, that at least one of those guys is gone. He was too clingy too. >.>

Also, I know it's not nice to say it, but as a human he would have become more of a burden than help in the future books, when the fighting is gonna get intense again. And with all those intriges going on, as a human he would be an easy target. So, yeah, it's better for Zoey this way.

Subject: Re: Heath. Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:50 pm

I agree.

I couldn't agree more. You said exactly how I felt. Smile

Subject: Re: Heath. Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:25 pm

Zoey was with Heath all of her life...But i don't know Heath is good choice....We'll seen..

Subject: Re: Heath. Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:13 pm

heath couldn't be a choice anyway, he's dead^^

i agree with ya amrod

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